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I carry a Sig P226 9mm, or a Springfield 1911 in 45. The two calibers no one wants to get tagged by . With proper shot placement, I can make my .22 a rock star. So they downvote actual biological functions here. A 9mm round fired at close range to the skull with the correct ammunition will be fatal nearly all the time. One other thought dont ever modify the trigger on your self-defensive gun if you ever have to use it in those situations and lawyer finds that out he will own everything you have. Still, I think when we're talking about pistol caliber handguns, it's pretty hard to measure any substantial accuracy differences when we're rarely shooting at distances greater than 15-25 yards if that. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. Now its true that most of those victims wounds ultimately proved fatal; but its also true that they were far from incapacitated and either did or could have returned fire if they were also armed. Bowman, Ive never liked Glock its sure a well made gun but definitely NOT the best gun Ive shot. The bullet has far less weight and cross section than a .45 acp? Of course shot placement is important. Oh and dont give me the garbage about 9mm has come a long way since its inception. Either work for me, and if I had to choose only one it would be 9mm just for the capacity. Pistol calibers can work well if you dispense them from an SMG and send lots of them at a time. There is little or no noticeable difference in wound tracks between 9mm Luger, .40 S&W and .45 Auto premium line rounds. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. Everyone should buy a magnum-powered handgun in .357 or larger caliber and feel completely secure that he or she has the best stopping power. Let the Craftsman pick his tools! I have never fired a .45 but rarely find the grips comfortable when I pick them up. Finally, someone mentions what type of ammo is being used. Someone may be laughing but I am given to understand that over in Iraq and Astan there are people who frequently HAVE had to chase down individuals who have been wounded with a handgun. I definitely know how to settle this little petty argument. The one that traveled the furthest was looking back over its shoulder and was hit in the muzzle. With this in mind, we will now explore handgun wounding factors. The rifle round, which is longer than a pistol projectile, likely also began tumbling after its point collided with his hip. The original design and purpose of the 1911 45, was perfect for its knock down power. The .357sig does have very impressive ballistics. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for However, from close enough range you could manage. Hollow point bullets are superior to round-nosed ones. Rookie year. But thats me. .45 Magazine type M1911 mag.45 ACP: Damage 1389 Blood: Fire modes Semi Shots to kill body: 3 head: 1 Effective range 50/100 m Rate of fire moderate Recoil Moderat Noise Moderate Sorry for the rant. However, at 15 feet in your living room that is a concern regardless of what you are using unless you have a 22 or a 380. It was modified to accept a detachable magazine and equipped with a folding stock. I have found that I prefer the 9mm as an EDC concealed carry. Many factors, including the moisture content, knot content, tree age and even the separation of the boards, can give rise to highly variable results. The Department of Defense has recently been taking a hard look at the sidearms and sidearm calibers issued to today's military personnel on the front lines. Good job! A 4 inch Redhawk 45 colt loaded with 24 grains of H100 under a 335 grain Cast performance sledgehammer should be good against the largest carnivore Todd. Although it should be noted that Glock is manufacturing in the US now, Sig Sauer is as well. 10..again 10 rounds landed on target. But thats a subject for another article. Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. The only reason law enforcement and, military use a 9mm is budget. SS and Homeland couldnt be to aly wrong!!! Chiverss history of the assault rifle, The Gun: In the macabre world of terminal ballistics, the study of what happens when projectiles actually strike, much can be made of over-penetration: the phenomenon of bullets passing clean through their targets. His career began as a special agent with NCIS. , Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. The difference can be seen with pistol rounds, as well. So its definitely capable. Practice is key. WOUND BALLISTICS - Motion and Effects of Projectiles in the Ret. There are far too many different considerations and circumstances between self-defense necessities and military/LE necessities to list in a comment section; but theyre important distinctions. When the. Whatever happened to the body armor piercing 5.7 round- 20 in the mag, one in the pipe n if that aint enough, 30 round mag works great for me!!!! You need to be a little more specific. .45 caliber merely refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are a large variety of cartridges that fire b ACP cystic fluid caused growth retardation and an increased obesity index in mice, affected the expression of the Npy, Fgfr2, Rnpc3, Sst, and Pcsk1n genes that regulate growth and energy metabolism in hypothalamic neurons, and enhanced the cellular interaction of AgrpMc3r. Once you run out of rounds, youre done. The FEE reports that there are between 2.1 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually, which means youre more likely to use a gun in self defense than you are to be killed in a car accident. Penetration, velocity, expansion, its all there. Fragmentation cannot reliably be counted upon with handgun wounds because of the comparatively low velocity of handgun rounds. Moreover, law enforcement shootings typically result in only one or two solid torso hits on adversaries. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 600 ft/s will penetrate 4' plate glass. Following the incident, significant changes were made to the firepower carried by agents, the body armor they wore and the incident response training they received. This study is thus inherently flawed, as it ranks large shallow wounds above deeper ones. The Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. Scratch expensive 45s. I am sure the debate will go on till the last Cockroach dies . In fact you are 1000 rounds short. I like them all! Your shot placement will be perfect. When i was in the military in the 60s we still were using hard ball ammo and the same still applied. Penetration of 7" pine boards for various pistol calibres: Illustrative penetration capabilities of a 30-06 full -jacketed rifle bullet at a velocity of 2700 ft/s and at a range of 200 yd: 1" of armour plate 7" of gravel 4.5" of brick 4" of concrete 32" of oak wood 6.5" of dry sand 7" of moist sand 26" of loam 24" of clay 19" of loose earth 60" of 1" pine boards, Continue reading here: General wound ballistic concepts, FREE Military Tough 6-in-1 Tactical Survival Knife, Free 2nd Amendment Gun Rights Silver Coin, Green Beret Master Sergeant Home Security Checklist, Winning Plays Texted To Your Phone That Comes Directly From An Elite Team Of Sharps, Ballistics Theory Straight Line Muzzle To Target, Internal External and Terminal Ballistics, High Standard Pistols - Firearms identification, Drop In Auto Sear - AR15 to M16 Conversion. If I ever have to use my firearm to defend myself or my family, I want all of the energy from that round to be expended in the target. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); 2023 Concealed Carry Inc. All Rights Reserved. I carry a number of different calibers depending on what Im wearing that day and where I intend to go; but I no longer even own a 9mm. This is why officers typically carry as many shoulder weapons as possible in their cars. 24 Round Magazine now only decreases reload time by 5% rather than 20% like before. And the department is no small one. IMHO, everyone of us is different in all ways from head to toe and mostly including the brain and fitting a handgun is different for all. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). Another, was a 300lb black bear. They are both capable of inflicting mortal wounds far beyond practical range. Human Body Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. I preferred carrying them before things went bad for me. I dont know if the recoil might throw me off. Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. Been hunting 49 years. .380 9mm .40 10mm or .45 one well placed shot and dead nothing really better about each round besides power and penetration they all kill in skilled hands and do there job in certain situations there is no better round than the one you train with period! are 9mm rounds substantially more accurate than their larger caliber brethren? Several firearms in .22LR, .380ACP, 9mm, 7.62x25, 7.62 Nagant, .38/.357, 7.62x54R, .45ACP and .223. Any other manufacturers that have been notified that they are not going to be selected may be waiting for the DoD to make the official announcement. I notice one parameter that seems to be ignored. WebA 9mm -40 - 357sig -45 ACP all do about 11-13" penetration into the human body no temporary wound cavity, and the diamiter differnce is from 9mm(.355(.357 caliber)) to 11.5mm(.45 caliber). If I think it can get that bad where Im going. I like it and am very comfortable pulling the trigger in as high stress of a situation as training allows. True enough, but the dead enemy will not lie there or sit-up and shoot or pull the pin on a grenade on you as the wounded enemy might. Glocks are cheap and reliable. Its only popular because of the name brand, not the true performance against other guns. The latest testing shows that modern 9mm performs pretty much as well as the other common semi-auto options, and since it carries more rounds and is easier to shoot (and I dont care who you are, but it is easier/faster to shoot compared to the larger calibers), it is fairly sound logic to select the 9mm. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. But to suggest they made the change due to the reasons quoted aboveparticularly because the 9mm supposedly has greater penetration due to less air resistanceis complete hogwash! 0.177" Steel air gun dart will penetrate to shank, in skin, at 120 ft/s. The guys that could handle the .45, all preferred it. 0.38" Special P, 158 gr non-expanding bullet will, unless it strikes a bone, pass straight through a human body. The U.S. military collected reports of its effects on the first Viet Cong combatants to be shot with the bullet. Thats a problem, because the force that continues to propel the bullet has essentially been wasted, not transferred to the target. If a 9mm bullet barely misses the heart or aorta of an adversary, but the heart or aorta of that same person is creased by the slightly larger .40 or .45 caliber round, it can be said with conviction that bullet diameter, expanding or not, really does matter. During the shootout, Special Agent Jerry Dove fired a lightweight, high-velocity 9mm round that struck murder/armored car robbery suspect Michael Lee Platt in the upper right arm. I thought a 55 115lb girl with small hands would want a .380, so I was surprise when she chose a Walther PPS in 9mm. .45 acp is a good round and I prefer it used in close quarter environments becuse it is heavier and pack more energy. Trauma surgeons, the guys actually opening up peoples chests and trying to put them back together, say otherwise. Thank you. It enables struggling shooters to attain better weapon control/shot placement, and permits skilled shooters to be faster and more accurate. Practice more and dont be proud you cant shoot. Its actually much more simple than most would like to think. Such as my Kimber and Walther and can never forget the CZ shadow 2. 45 acp damage human body 45 acp damage human body on jun 11, 2022 on jun 11, 2022 The impact of the injury would depend on where the bullet went besides your stomach. Mine is easily concealable, accurate and has never failed to function. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. And thats hardly re-enacting a self defense scenario. I have read how the 124gr 9mm ammo used by NATO does not do its intended job. Good job Chris and the rest of you but remember when you give gun advise target shooting and self defense shooting are two different scenarios and one can get you deadyou cant shoot my gun as good as me but you can shoot your gun because its the best one for you. The 9mm is a typical government one-size-fits-all solution. Projectiles incapacitate by damaging or destroying the central nervous system, or by causing significant and potentially lethal blood loss. What do you think of the Shield or do you know anything about it? I love it. Elton Makin was a US marine in World War One. In September 1918 American troops had overrun the German front line, and he was sent back carrying a you should read TIFU my boss shot me reddit. damage Thanks. For example, a shot through the side of the body must penetrate between 10 to 12 inches to hit the heart. It did when it came to FMJ bullets. Still, the research is not widespread and a great deal of it is not terribly relevant for the average person searching for a reliable self-defense weapon. This gave the enemy a chance to still bury a spearhead in the shooters chest, before finally collapsing from internal damage and blood loss. What I have seen over the years on this debate, is that the majority, not all, prefer the 9mm due to its minimal recoil, magazine capacity and concealability. A .45 ACP will encounter greater resistance than a 9mm, but it also carries more weight, albeit at a slower velocity. That alone could be a convincing argument to switch platforms. Just imagine what it might have been like had you had to perform a reload in that situation? It got up and walked about 25 yards before falling. And fyi, if you are an expert at shooting a needle into peoples medulla, caliber is irrelevant until the large size becomes combersome. Testing shows terminal ballistics of modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round. I am a classic ). As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. As I have read your comments and, also read many debates including what science says. There is a wide range of participants and many of them have never fired a gun of any kind. Your skull is very thick in places (base of the skull) and some bullets arent designed for that kind of penetration. Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. Back then we all agreed the larger rounds had better stopping power. He kicked in the door and she was able to disarm him ( He was lying next to the bathroom door. WebActually, three different types of pressure change appear: (1) shock wave pressures or sharp, high pressure pulses, formed when the missile hits the body surface; (2) very high pressure regions immediately in front and to each side of the moving missile; (3) relatively slow, low pressure changes connected with the behavior of the large explosive Therefore, the 9mm is probably the correct choice. And if Im responsible enough to use a firearm to fight for my government, Im responsible enough to own a firearm to protect myself and loved ones. The best gun is the one that is best in your hands not best someone elses hands. Give me a break!! Take it this way, someone shoots at you, you at them. Sudden, immediate and even instant death. It doesnt get more damaging that that. Remember, people dont have health bars. One single shot from nea In combat the one thing that does count is having more capacity, whether you miss or have more threats to neutralize, more capacity is a good thing no matter how you look at it. I checked him out, and he's legit as far as that title is concerned and where he works. Nobody I know whos been in the service liked the M9. Why arent both so much better than .223? I know the argument for +P with lighter bullets, but I settled on these because they meet my two most important criteria for defensive ammo penetration and accuracy. There are a number of factors involved, including physical, psychological and physiological, but human bodies are much more durable than is commonly believed. This was not a good CC carry eather so for a while I did not carry CC. at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. His chest was gurgling and slurping. I'll tell you what DOES impact penetrationit is the frontal area of the bullet and its relative friction and resistance as it impacts a body and attempts to travel through. The biggest determining factors were and have always been budget and of course, what the inept FBI is carrying. Wilderness Arena For members of the hand-cannon clique, toting a weapon loaded with anything less is just asking to be shot or killed by street punks who are feelin lucky.. Ive got a good deal of ballistic and aeronautical knowledge under my belt, and I agree in flight friction coefficient is not something that plays a significant enough role in comparative analysis of 9mm and 45 Auto at practical ranges. Never held a weapon till boot camp. The answer is Yes. I am aware of the ballistics of both rounds, and am a handloader. WebThe.45 acp proved an effective round with greatly improved stopping power. The damage is often extensive, and not just for those who die. When Does a .380 Beat That is those of us that has and carries guns. I also could not afford the astronomical price (astronomical in my current budget) shops are now asking for a 4 inch Ruger Redhawk. Like cars and motorcycles its all a matter of preference for each individual.God Bless America and May God keep us safe so we dont ever have to be put in a situation to have to find out. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. Shot placement rules. by Kyle Mizokami Key Point: These are the bullets that will do the This makes rifle rounds significantly more damaging than their handgun counterparts. 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles that are, under identical testing conditions, outperforming most premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI.